A Shutdown Where None of the Normal Rules Apply – The New York Times

Oct. 17, 2025

Hosted by Michael Barbaro, Featuring Tyler PagerCatie Edmondson and Tony Romm

Produced by Eric Krupke Shannon M. Lin and Stella Tan, Edited by Chris Haxel and Paige Cowett, Original music by Marion Lozano and Sophia Lanman, Engineered by Alyssa Moxley

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Under normal circumstances, the profound pain of a government shutdown compels both parties to negotiate a quick resolution on behalf of the American people. But, so far, nothing about this shutdown is normal.

Times journalists Michael Barbaro, Tyler Pager, Catie Edmondson and Tony Romm sit down to discuss why this shutdown feels so different.

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On Today’s Episode

Tyler Pager, a White House correspondent for The New York Times, covering President Trump and his administration.

Catie Edmondson, a congressional correspondent for The New York Times.

Tony Romm, a reporter covering economic policy and the Trump administration for The New York Times, based in Washington.

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Background Reading

• President Trump’s unilateral spending cuts could complicate a shutdown deal.
• The Trump administration said it would pay some ICE and T.S.A. agents during the shutdown.

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